“Oh, boy,” Sabrina Carpenter says at the start of Manchild, the first track of her new album Man’s Best Friend—and she’s not kidding.
With her seventh album, the Grammy award-winning artist steps into a new era of bold storytelling and sonic experimentation. The pop superstar sat down with Apple Music’s Zane Lowe for an intimate, unfiltered conversation about her seventh studio album.
In the wide-ranging interview, Carpenter dives deep into the inspirations behind her most daring record yet, from the ’60s funk-pop influences woven throughout its sound to the raw emotions that shaped its lyrics. She opens up about co-producing alongside hitmakers Jack Antonoff, John Ryan, and Amy Allen, the whirlwind of creating a new album just a year after Short n’ Sweet, and the backlash surrounding the provocative cover art. With her signature humour and candour, Carpenter reflects on heartbreak, growth, and what it means to make music entirely on her own terms.
Read the full interview below.
On the story behind ‘Man’s Best Friend’
Sabrina Carpenter: I think I came out of a sad situation, a lot less bitter than I intended or expected to. With a little bit more of the like, you know what? There’s two people involved, and this is part of growing up. I don’t want to be enemies with people that I loved. I loved them. I think obviously it depends on what happens and what goes down and how much you feel like you can truly trust that person. But I do, I feel like it is one of those situations where even the album starting with “Oh, boy” was sort of a… It’s an eye roll to yourself being like, here we go again.
And I think that that’s something that feels very reflective of this time in my life where you don’t really have a lot of time to sort of mope and weep. You kind of just got to get back out there, and not even in a dating way, not even in a romantic way, but just get back out there in terms of if you’re staying inside and you’re thinking about how everything’s going wrong, everything’s going to go wrong and you’re going to be inside. And I think a lot of… So literal. My whole life. But a lot of life is truly happening out there. So it’s that switching on that mindset of being like, you know what? Just because you deal with something that’s difficult and maybe really hurts you, doesn’t mean that you’re damaged, doesn’t mean you can’t do it again, doesn’t mean you can’t open yourself up. And I think this one was a newer heartbreak experience for me.
On creating a new album so soon after releasing her last album ‘Short n’ Sweet’
Sabrina Carpenter: It’s been a whirlwind and a rollercoaster, as you could imagine, to make another album, I guess, in this time period. But I was so excited to do something that felt not just unexpected for other people, but it was unexpected for me as well.
Zane Lowe: Came out of nowhere for you?
Sabrina Carpenter: It slowly came out of nowhere, I think like anything, if you have a few songs that you love, you’re like, “I wonder how …” What? It’s like seven or eight more songs until you have a project. And I would never force it if I didn’t love it. So it really was just this thing of … I think this is a chapter I’m so meant to document. And it really represents a funny period in my life that I think I’ll always look back on and remember exactly who I was at that time.
Zane Lowe: You will, you’ve got an album to tell you exactly in vivid detail and with real humor.
Sabrina Carpenter: Too vivid, borderline.
On her inspiration for ‘Man’s Best Friend’ and bringing back the 60s funk-pop sound
Sabrina Carpenter: I do find I’m so inspired by art from that time period, I’m so inspired by music and chords and instruments from that time. I mean, everything that has just a little bit of a softness and a fuzziness to it is something that really resonates with me and always has.
Zane Lowe: There’s a hard hittingness to it though as well, when you see some of the interviews, and I saw some of the reference material, and I’d seen a few of them before, I’d seen the Leonard Cohen piece before, bits of the Marilyn Monroe interview. That was fascinating the Marilyn Monroe interview. So smart, so sharp and so underestimated at every step of the way. Crazy. Fame back then was a mad thing.
Sabrina Carpenter: And it’s still a mad thing. It’s just transformed into something so different than what it was. But part of that was also fascinating in watching the way everything’s changed and nothing’s changed. So I think that that was a huge reference point for me in making this album. And it’s so interesting to be able to listen to the songs and be like I’m talking about these subjects in a really, I guess, modern Sabrina type of way. But it’s the same shit that’s been happening for 60 years. So what does that say? I don’t know. I’ll write it in the next album.
Zane Lowe: We’re in a loop.
Sabrina Carpenter: Yeah, we’re in a spiral. And I do think that there’s a lot of beauty in … even though those times I was not alive. With every time period, there’s pain, there’s struggle, there’s sadness, there’s celebration, there’s joy.
Zane Lowe: There’s icons.
Sabrina Carpenter: There’s icons. There’s also just things that really stick with you. And I’ve been really inspired by all of it.
On how she created her albums based off constructive criticism, until now
Sabrina Carpenter: It’s interesting, even with my last album, Short n’ Sweet was a record that I worked on for two and a half years after I made an album called emails i can’t send, and it really was based off of the constructive criticism from emails i can’t send that I made Short n’ Sweet. Obviously, it was also my life and my experiences that I was going through, but kind of taking into account the way that I really wanted to refine that sound and some of those pop songs into something very glossy was one way of doing it.
And I think this album was birthed the opposite way. It was sort of like I felt like I had accomplished something that had something for everybody and they really liked it. And then I was like, “Now I’m going to make this not just for me …” But you know what I mean? I’m not making it so I can appease and check all the boxes for everyone that liked this and this about the last album.
Zane Lowe: I’m so glad you said that. People talk about the complications of success. But it feels like there are times when it can simplify things, goals and ambitions, and all of a sudden that stuff, to your point, seems to fall away a bit.
Sabrina Carpenter: It’s like I already did that. I did that the last album. Do you want to hear the same album again? No. Let me make a new album. Let me try some things. If you don’t like it, that means I did something, right? Because I think it means you’re not used to it, it’s not something that’s so digestible, it’s not something that immediately is just like, yes. And not to say that you can’t have amazing songs that are great on the first listen, but I do think that there is something about this album that I knew was going to take a second just simply because of how much is going on.
About the backlash received over the cover art for ‘Man’s Best Friend’
Sabrina Carpenter: It’s so funny thinking about it now because I wanted a man playing with my hair and I actually used maybe five different men to take that photo because none of them could play with my hair. They were all pulling it. They were all nervous to be holding my hair. And so the grip looked like they were yanking it, and the whole purpose of the photo was supposed to be cheeky and airy and playful of like, I got myself here, here I am, this is someone I love but also someone that emotionally can be doing a lot with my heart and doing a lot with my emotions. It was interesting that the photo that we landed on was so special. There was only one shot that was shot on film that had that lighting the way that I wanted it with this facial expression where I’m clearly in control even though I’m on all fours. And to me it was just perfect. So when I showed my friends and family, I was like, there it is. And it was great and done with the day.
Zane Lowe: And the reaction was mixed or was…?
Sabrina Carpenter: No, the reaction… I mean there was no shift in the universe. It was a very normal day. So when it came out, that was just my initial thing was to sort of be like, well then this is I guess why putting out something without having the context is always tricky.
Zane Lowe: But isn’t it funny that a lot of the reaction came from a certain type of individual who shows up on the album without even realizing it? I feel like, I don’t know, this is just my opinion, but nobody’s son talks to the responsibility of raising people the right way and they’re reacting to this like it’s this kind of moral misstep, but that person on the cover, if they see it as a negative, it could easily be their son.
Sabrina Carpenter: I also thought a lot about that in general, of there is a generation that gets offended by some of the things I do and it’s a generation that has either young children or they’ve raised children and they’re just sort of looking at it from a different point in their life, sort of scolding and they all had sex many times because they popped a lot of kids out. So I just think about that and I’m always just like, it’s so funny. I mean, we’re all just so judgmental.
Zane Lowe: And also, why did you get to have fun? And now I’m not supposed to do what comes next?
Sabrina Carpenter: I’m not allowed to have sex, but you are. I’m also, not to be so self-aware, but I’m a pop star.
On working with producer Jack Antonoff, embracing her vibrato tone and being more theatrical
Sabrina Carpenter: When I was younger, I remember working with producers that would really try to get me to stop doing that because I always had it from the time I was really… I remember recording a song when I was 16 and I was singing a high note and there’s a lot of vibrato, You know what I mean? And to me, it felt stylistic and it felt like my voice, but they’re like, “Can you just sing it straight? That’s pop. Sing it straight.” I was like, “What the…?”
Zane Lowe: That sentence sounds so off.
Sabrina Carpenter: Yeah, people have said a lot of really unfortunate things to me over the years, but that was something that stuck with me because for a few years, I definitely… You do you, you remember those things. And then it wasn’t until I started working with Jack [Antonoff], it was just like, “Yeah, vibrato is so special and so unique.” And then when you hear it throughout Short n’ Sweet a little bit, it was something that I was like, “Oh, it’s like a sigh of relief. I can actually just sing sometimes the way that I sing in my mixed voice.” And a song like that, it’s just so fun because it’s like doing gymnastics. It’s like, “How far can we push it?” And that one specifically, when we were recording it, “We Almost Broke Up Again Last Night,” it’s like, “Truly, what is the top and how much can we go there?”
And with “Sugar Talking” as well, every song for different reasons, but I think this was definitely one where I wasn’t questioning what my voice was and what it could be. It was something where I also really realized how much the storytelling and the performance has everything to do with the way I sing the line.
And there was a lot more acting maybe going on in this recording process and a lot more theatrics than in the past where you’re hitting notes and you’re making sure that the melody is the best melody. This time around, as much as I was also taking that into consideration, I was also thinking about what would be the most theatrical to sing.
Zane Lowe: Everybody in the room was clearly because I know you produced a record with John and Jack and Amy and you do the vocals and, of course, you handle the vocal performances. But I feel everybody was like, “That’s interesting.” And then someone would be like, “Yeah, I can respond to that.” When I listened to the record, I felt everybody is sparing each other on the best way.
Sabrina Carpenter: And I do think it’s because those three know my voice so well, and they also put a lot of trust in me. Once we have a lead laid down, they can just press record and I can just start doing all the little backgrounds, doing all the harmonies, building out the world that really makes it feel like there’s a thousand of me there at once, and that’s really special. And yeah, I think it’s the best part about working with people that you trust.
On how ‘Man’s Best Friend’ resonates with her, compared to ‘Short n’ Sweet’ or any other album
Sabrina Carpenter: I keep saying there is something about this album to me more so than the last one that does feel really cohesive. It was, it was made from an experience that was really, really safe, consolidated into, not a short period of time, but it was something that I was going through that was very written from how I felt in the moment as I was experiencing it. Whereas Short n’ Sweet, I was able to sort of deal with something, have some time to think about it, figure out what I wanted to say, and then make those songs from that perspective. So this was a little bit more maybe in the moment than the last one.
I also just realised, I was like, “This is so cool, there are no rules.” And I also have seen a few artists recently say this, it’s like, I think there’s this sort of stigma around doing things in the right way. And you’re just taking all the fun out of it. I mean, if you’re doing it in the way that everyone expects and give people time to… I mean, I grew up on artists that would release 10-song albums once a year. So now to sort of feel like we’ve changed to the place where if artists put out albums frequently, it’s like, “Why did they do that? Why are they making art?”
On her musical upbringing, family support, and dealing with loneliness on tour
Sabrina Carpenter: Music was everywhere. My parents were the kind of parents that loved to sit on the porch at the end of the night with a glass of wine and music playing, and that was really important I think for me. We had a piano in my house ever since I was born. We had musical instruments around from the second that I asked for one. If I really wanted a guitar, then on Christmas there’s a guitar. And I’m obviously very lucky to say that and have parents that were just so supportive of a dream that could easily be a very silly thing that turns to nothing.
But I think they knew because I was always really attached to it and wanting to know more. And from the second that I saw a movie where someone was singing, I was right up next to the screen trying to do the same thing. My parents had very different taste in music. My dad was a big Rush fan, big Queen fan, big Beatles fan. My mom was a big Patsy Cline, Etta James, Dolly, Aretha. There was so… I mean, Carole King, so many great ones, and that’s sort of why I feel so lucky because I just was… They’re not good singers.
Zane Lowe: Your parents?
Sabrina Carpenter: No, but they have really lovely taste in music.
Zane Lowe: You’re the youngest of four girls, so you have three siblings. What does being the youngest of four teach you about the concept of adversity when you’re trying to achieve your dreams?
Sabrina Carpenter: Well, being the baby is a really unique… Are you the baby of your family?
Zane Lowe: Yeah, youngest of two.
Sabrina Carpenter: So I don’t know. It’s a very unique experience, and I only know it from my seat because I was a very strong-headed baby. I wrote in another song, an older song of mine called “Exhale.” The first lyric is “Who puts the baby in charge,” because that’s how it felt. I think that was always my personality from the time I was really young. So I think in a lot of ways I felt very supported to be outspoken and to also just really take charge of what I wanted. And they all had their different passions and different goals and dreams. So it wasn’t really so much like I was fighting for that voice to be heard. I think I was lucky enough to have parents that wanted to make sure all their children had as much as they could to do what they need and what they wanted and what they loved. So you can have the best foundation in the world, doesn’t mean you’re going to be the best product. You could have the worst foundation in the world, become the best product. It’s all based off of experiences.
Zane Lowe: Such a funny gig, isn’t it? Your job is to try to tell your story and find your truth at any given moment to make others feel less alone. But then you go out for 10 months and you’ve got to put the show on the-
Sabrina Carpenter: And you feel alone.
Zane Lowe: Every night. Yeah, every night, right?
Sabrina Carpenter: In this climate, it’s a little scary to say, but I am a bit of a show must go on kind of girl. I think that was from maybe starting working when I was a really young age and also working in television. If you get injured, it’s like, “Well, how bad is the injury? Can you keep shooting? Can we put a bandaid on it?” And maybe that’s unhealthy. And obviously admitting that people can be like, “Oh, poor girl, she has no idea. She’s brainwashed.” Maybe. Figure that out later through therapy.
But for now, it’s something where, again, like I said, I have a drive and I do love the feeling that I get when I get to perform and do the things that I love. When I get to create the videos, when I get to make the album, when I get to be in the studio with the people, I love making songs. I think that’s the part that makes it all feel okay. As cliché as that sounds. So I try to just keep that mentality on, especially when I am on the road and it gets lonely. But I also call people and I also have friends…
On her plans to tour her new music and why she didn’t release a video for “Bed Chem” and “Juno”
Sabrina Carpenter: The thing to keep in mind for me is I have so many goals and I have so many avenues and things that I’d like to do and things I’d like to try. And so I do try to really take advantage of if I feel driven to make another album… It’s a lot of work that comes with it. So I wouldn’t just do it again because someone else was telling me to. I think I’m at a nicer point in my life where I can sort of go, “No, I’ll do it if I feel like it’s right for me.” And I’m lucky to be able to do that right now. But that’s sort of why I think I’m feeling so excited about this project and this moment because I know maybe in however many years, however many albums that come after this, they’re not… I don’t want to make the same album over and over again. I want to try to-
Zane Lowe: Onto this one now and wait and see.
Sabrina Carpenter: Yeah… I’m finishing the end of the Short n’ Sweet Tour the end of this year. And again, like I said, it’s because I made Short n’ Sweet between the years of 23, 24, and I made this album at 25. I think it’ll be a really fun show where maybe I can incorporate some new songs without it being a whole new tour.
But the festival shows that I do are a completely different creative than my tour. And it’s not saying that I figure it out as I go, but there is kind of what you said earlier, it’s like, how are you dealing with this overnight, fast? That’s more of what feels overnight to me is just the pace at which things happen. And already, it’s been a year since the last album and already you’re sort of like, okay, I agreed to do these shows a year ago and I’m in a different headspace now and I’m never going to sacrifice, again, what feels good and what I actually feel really strongly about.
I’m the same way with videos. If I make a video and I’m like, this does not meet my standards, and if it doesn’t meet mine, it’s not going to meet everybody else’s, and I don’t want to just put out a video for the sake of putting it out. That’s why I didn’t do a video for “Bed Chem” or a video for “Juno” on the last album because I was like, truthfully, I don’t think I want a fourth single with a video that doesn’t match up to the three that I made that I felt so confident in. And I feel the same way about the tour. I’m going to make sure that it’s something that I feel really great about and then that’ll come when it comes. I don’t want to spoil too much, but I am really excited because I do think that that side of it is always so fun and gives the people that maybe feel a certain way about songs, a chance to really hear them in the element that they’re designed to be in, which some of them are just so made to be done live.
Watch the full interview here:
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